sacred vow?

[Komusō]

Support Issue: Basic Rules
The Issue: In short, is there any noticeable effect to making a sacred vow? If my character makes a vow of chastity for example, do they gain a resistance to charm spells? As in theory they would be more resistant to the effects. The same could be applied to the more popular Vow of  Poverty (You gain bonuses to your Armor Class, ability scores, and saving throws, as well as bonus exalted feats, all depending on your character level.), or Vow of Non-violence (The saving throw DC for spells you cast or other special abilities you use against humanoid or monstrous humanoid targets is increased by +4 if the spell does not deal damage (including ability damage but not nonlethal damage), bestow negative levels, or cause death. ) And if not, can we make one? As a custom technique?

For example:

Vow of Chastity
You have taken a sacred vow to refrain from marriage and sexual intercourse.
Benefit: You gain a +4 perfection bonus on Will saving throws against charm and phantasm spells and effects.
Special:
To fulfill your vow, you must abstain from any sexual contact with any other creature. If you intentionally break your vow, you immediately and irrevocably lose the benefit of this feat. You may not take another feat to replace it. If you break your vow as a result of magical compulsion, you lose the benefit of this feat until you perform a suitable penance and receive an atonement spell.

Reference

[Deleted]

Nope. No"sacred vows" to be made excepting those required by our two religions, Jashinism and Kaishaiba. Note they aren't the only religions one is permitted to practice, and whatever you practice if any can have whatever tenants you desire, but there won't be any statistical benefits or associated techniques.

Comedic note: Besides, at least insofar as your vow of chastity specifically, hardly anyone gets laid around here. Mostly due to the "Keep it PG" clause enforced by proboards, but also because of the relatively few romantically inclined characters and/or relationships. Most are driven by some level of ambition, and as the Jedi say, relationships only get in the way.

[Komusō]

Jan 15, 2016 13:50:08 GMT -7 @tellar said:

Nope. No"sacred vows" to be made excepting those required by our two religions, Jashinism and Kaishaiba. Note they aren't the only religions one is permitted to practice, and whatever you practice if any can have whatever tenants you desire, but there won't be any statistical benefits or associated techniques.

Thank you for your insight on this matter.
I'm proposing more of a 'universal' approach to the vows, something that people could select to help flesh out the religion they follow in character if they so desired, in much the same way that some of the Miscellaneous index techniques, something that gives a benefit to the path you have selected. As at the moment my character can follow a considerable amount of paths, from a psychological profiler, or a cryptologist to a regular old medic, I'm just seeking some form of in character benefit from following a vow. If my character abstains from Alcohol for example, it doesn't make sense for him to be tempted as readily as a 'normal' character is all I'm saying.

Psychological Profiling
Rank: "C"
Skill: Supplementary
Effect: Psychologists and psychiatrists can link visible evidence to personality types.
Special: ---
Drawback: ---
Description: As a science, it is not exact. Characters can ask for psychological profiles, but only in big events. The Ninja use profiling when there is no main suspect. The ANBU is the biggest user of profiling; its own study found that only seventeen percent of cases were solved by the use of profiling. Profilers draw most of their evidence from the scene of the crime. It is not unusual for profilers to disagree. Example profiles include:
An urbane intellectual who is a manipulation freak.
A blue-collar worker of low intelligence and no remorse.
A victim of great personal loss or anguish connected with the MO.
An antisocial personality looking to articulate themselves.

These would be good profiles to receive if the user is a character assigned to a case. They represent a big clue from the person telling the story. When writing a story, a Game Master needs to think about the psychology of their criminals; however, in game, a Game Master should not want to give too much away too soon. In reality, profiling adds flavor rather than facts. Profiling only gives clues and signals, not a detailed description (for example, the suspect is a highly intelligent person, etc.) By using Sense Motive -40, and Evidence Analysis -40, the user can gain the flavorful insight of a target.
Limit: Must learn from Universal Miscellaneous. Must know Evidence Analysis (20 Points). Must know Sense Motive (20 Points).

Cryptology Supremacy
Rank: "C"
Skill: Supplementary
Effect: Encryption? User Scoffs at Encryption.
Special: ---
Drawback: ---
Description: When calculating user's checks for creating or breaking ciphers, a cipher's encryption Power Rating is considered to be 4 lower its actual value. This replaces the Power Rating reduction granted by Cryptology Mastery. Further, all synergy bonuses applied to the user's Cryptography skill checks are considered to be unnamed bonuses (allowing them to stack with other bonuses).
Limit: Must learn from Universal Miscellaneous. Must know Cryptology Mastery. Must know Cryptography (75 Points).

[Komusō]

narutoforumrp.proboards.com/thread/104570/increasing-religious-depth
I've just realised that a similar concept has been suggested in a prior thread, but the site has yet to adopt it. Perhaps this will serve to necro the topic? A universal religion system
@yukihyou ; Captain M ; The Creator

Jan 15, 2016 13:50:08 GMT -7 @tellar said:

Comedic note: Besides, at least insofar as your vow of chastity specifically, hardly anyone gets laid around here. Mostly due to the "Keep it PG" clause enforced by proboards, but also because of the relatively few romantically inclined characters and/or relationships. Most are driven by some level of ambition, and as the Jedi say, relationships only get in the way.

Whilst this may be true, it does not necessary mean that a character is willing to make a vow, to never have a partner. Also, I'm sure that you can see how you are less likely to tempt someone who has made a vow, into a sexual relationship than a 'regular Joe', I can't imagine Jiraiya, for example, was all that resistant to sexual desires. Dealer's Button is married for example? Would he give that up for a minor resistance? In my experience the Vow of Poverty & Vow of non-violence are the popular vows, would you be willing to give up all your items and never attack someone again for a relatively small bonus? I've always viewed them as ascetic feats, designed so that people who are voluntary poor as part of their concept are not as screwed as they would be without the vow; they aren't intended to put both parties on a level playing field.

Hippocratic Oath
Rank: "C"
Skill: Supplementary
Effect: Due to a sacred oath of saving lives, the Doctor is more determined to do just that.
Special: ---
Drawback: User loses effects if they take a life even in self defense.
Description: User gains a -20 in their Die Roll in determining any and all Medical Skills, Identify Poison, and Alchemy when creating restorative creations. The user's Healing Hands Techniques are reduced by 1 rank when determining Handseals. The Doctor loses this bonus for 1 year if they kill a human being. This includes killing a human in self-defense. This penalty does not apply to anything that is not a human. This includes Constructs, Animals, or other beasts of similar nature.
Limit: Must be a Medical Doctor. Must know First Aid: Healing (Master).

Is a medical equivalent to a vow, just asking for a universal religious version.

[Deleted]

Ah. I was under the impression you were asking whether or not something existed, not for something to be created. Something like that should be posted under Suggestions & Ideas
\

[Komusō]

Jan 15, 2016 15:01:03 GMT -7 @tellar said:

Ah. I was under the impression you were asking whether or not something existed, not for something to be created. Something like that should be posted under Suggestions & Ideas
\

As stated in my opening post, I asked if we had something like that. "And if not, can we make one? As a custom technique?"

I agree that this should now be transferred to the suggestion area, perhaps a member of staff will assist me.

[Deleted]

Couple of options there. Either make a new thread there and get this one locked up by a staff member (unless you have more questions) or ask a staff member to move this there. Up to you.

[Moon]

i'd think locking this up would be counterintuitive, as some of the points you've both brought up are still relevant to the conversation, and no staff member has posted with an opinion yet. When they see, and comment, i'm sure they could move this, though I also understand the rush for people to be helpful in support.

there's a definite point being made here, and the example of jiraiya is what made it especially hit home with me. jiraiya would have been all too easy to tempt with a pair of boobies. though the claim that everyone's open to practice whatever religion they want, the only recognized religions with any benefit remain kaishaba and jashinism, which aren't exactly covering all bases. there are traits like 'priest' (and virtually all the faith traits) that convey similar bonuses, a general religious trait or miscellaneous tech or what have you to cover these kind of vows, specifically for those who've chosen an ascetic life, makes alotta sense imo.

[Komusō]

Another consideration is the divine lore skill, this could be used as a prerequisite for the vows, in much the same way that Cryptology Supremacy & Psychological Profiling require knowledge, in particular, skills.

New religious techniques, in general, would give more use to the Divine Lore skill, given the skill relates to the identification of jutsus. At the moment, there is little incentive to take that skill.

Divine Lore
Rank: "D"
Skill: Skill
Effect: A skill for basic Divine knowledge of religions and religious cults.
Special: ---
Drawback: ---
Description: A person versed in Divine Lore knows the basic principles behind most religions. They know secrets about most religious orders and practices that many others do not. They know how to read Religious Writings and Scrolls. They may not be able to perform Religious Jutsus, but the user can read the writing and generally tell what it is all about. Some practical applications of Divine Lore follow: Identifying Religious Icons, Identifying Jutsus, Identifying Chakra Items, and Deciphering Scrolls. Look in Jutsu Lore Skills thread found in the Skills and Traits Index for more information. Each time learned user gets 5 die roll to increase the skill.
Limit: ---

[Deleted]

Jutsu-like effects, which are all over the place in craftsman, count as jutsu to identify. For the purposes of divine lore, this specifically means the Faith path. And then yes, it also does indeed recognize blessings from Jashinism and Kaishaiba.

Although all three of these things are on the somewhat rarer side, this does make it not completely worthless. Largely though, like the vast majority of skills, it serves more as another way of describing and differentiating your character from the rest than it does provide mechanical benefit in tasks or battles. This among other things may be more utilized in time, but as it stands there are other things that need doing which have a higher priority. With the addition of newer systems comes the need to bring everything up to code, and there are a great deal of outmoded indexes which require sprucing, or even outright revamping.

Basically "Universal Religious Techniques" which apply to faiths outside of Jashinism and Kaishaiba are a known concern, but on the back burner for now.

[Komusō]

Jan 15, 2016 18:30:20 GMT -7 @tellar said:

Jutsu-like effects, which are all over the place in craftsman, count as jutsu to identify. For the purposes of divine lore, this specifically means the Faith path. And then yes, it also does indeed recognize blessings from Jashinism and Kaishaiba.

Although all three of these things are on the somewhat rarer side, this does make it not completely worthless. Largely though, like the vast majority of skills, it serves more as another way of describing and differentiating your character from the rest than it does provide mechanical benefit in tasks or battles. This among other things may be more utilized in time, but as it stands there are other things that need doing which have a higher priority. With the addition of newer systems comes the need to bring everything up to code, and there are a great deal of outmoded indexes which require sprucing, or even outright revamping.

Basically "Universal Religious Techniques" which apply to faiths outside of Jashinism and Kaishaiba are a known concern, but on the back burner for now.

Both of which are exceedingly rare, in fact, I can't think of a single Jashinist on the site, and I'm only aware of one member of Kaishaiba. The same can be said for the Pious path; I can only think of two people who possess the path, with the final technique requires you to be a member of an actual religion Reference 👺 Usiel. The idea that I am proposing makes use of a currently underutilised part of the site, allowing more people to go into the Pious tree, rewards people who want to roleplay being a member of the warrior priest style, gives a practical application for the use of skills, etc. In fact, I honestly can not see a negative to this idea, I have even inquired whether we would be able to create them as a custom so that the pressure on staff members is reduced. Failing that they could always use the resources D&D provide as they have done with some many aspects of the site, i.e. the traits and skills.

[Draven]

Moved to Suggestions upon request.

Edit:
So as staff here is my opinion.
We already have 2 recognized religions on the site. These are religions that have techniques.

We do also recognize any religion that you may come up with, but as stated you do not get benefits. It is simply a role playing/plot/character bio device.

Customs are currently not accepting no new religions.
That doesn't mean that their is none in the works. It simply means that we are not allowing them in customs at this time. Maybe someday it will open up. But I will say that I have a feeling that religions are planned to come out, it's just that there are many projects.

Couple of options here:
A. customs to open up a bit (probably a really really long wait)
B. wait for more religions to come out (Really long wait,but most likely not as long as waiting for customs to open up.)
C. Make your own religion as a simple charactor story device.


So what I see here is a suggestion to open up Customs for religion.
My opinion is that I wouldn't mind it opening up. I think we have some things established so that there can be decent creations coming from members.

But ultimately this is going to be Usiel's decision, because you never know what he has cooking up...

[👺 Usiel]

Ya my apologies I wont be adding those Vows. They can be abused depending on the person. Since you can't really roleplay out sexual acts people tend to stay away from that kind of thing though there are role plays of couples doing something just not explicit. We already have a plethora of techniques and traits that already defend against certain things as well.

[Komusō]

I can see the abuse of the vow of chastity, in retrospect it was a poor example to include. However, I'm struggling to see how a vow of non-violence / peace, or vow of poverty would be readily abused by the sites members, with the former not allowing you to deal lethal damage to your opponent so no fireballs, and the latter preventing you from owning any money / equipment, both seem to go against the general norm. Perhaps I've missed them but I can't see anything on the site functions as a PoV / PoP.

[👺 Usiel]

Hmm the other vows may work, however these would be traits in a sense. We have things where people learn. This isn't something people can learn. What if they don't follow the vow, do they lose the trait?

[Komusō]

A Vow or an Oath can, in theory, be made at any point in time, so personally I think it’s more suited to the miscellaneous section, or a universal religion. I’d imagine that it could follow a similar format to the 'Hippocratic Oath', as far as I am aware, one would have to invest training points into this technique in order to benefit from it.

As far as breaking the Vow goes, the aforementioned technique states that you lose its effects for a year. In the source material,

‘If you intentionally break your vow, you immediately and irrevocably lose the benefit of this feat. You may not take another feat to replace it. If you break your vow as a result of magical compulsion or otherwise unwittingly, you lose the benefit of this feat until you perform a suitable penance and receive an atonement spell. (Characters who have taken a Vow of Peace are known to drink water through a strainer in order to avoid accidentally swallowing, and thereby causing harm to, a small insect.)’
Reference

Nor would atonement be required for activities that are ‘out of your control’. Presumably, this is already the same basis that a Hippocratic Oath operates under, for example if the patient dies for reasons out of your control, I don’t imagine that you would lose the effects of the technique. The Vow of Peace currently extends to all living creatures, so a midge in your eye would not cause you to lose the effects, nor would your body killing a virus.
Poverty
Non-violence

Hippocratic Oath
Rank: "C"
Skill: Supplementary
Effect: Due to a sacred oath of saving lives, the Doctor is more determined to do just that.
Special: ---
Drawback: User loses effects if they take a life even in self defense.
Description: User gains a -20 in their Die Roll in determining any and all Medical Skills, Identify Poison, and Alchemy when creating restorative creations. The user's Healing Hands Techniques are reduced by 1 rank when determining Handseals. The Doctor loses this bonus for 1 year if they kill a human being. This includes killing a human in self-defense. This penalty does not apply to anything that is not a human. This includes Constructs, Animals, or other beasts of similar nature.
Limit: Must be a Medical Doctor. Must know First Aid: Healing (Master).

[Komusō]

Just as a sample of how I'd imagine the technique play out. Perhaps ranks of religion, or the priest trait could be added as limits.

Vow of non-violence
Rank: "C"
Skill: Supplementary
Effect: You have taken a sacred vow to avoid violence against humanoids.
Special: ---
Drawback: User loses effects if you inflict physical damage to an enemy.
Description: The saving throw DC for jutsus cast, or other special abilities you use against humanoid or monstrous humanoid targets receive a divine bonus of +4, providing the spell does not deal damage (including abilities that deal damage but non-lethal damage, i.e. phantasmal killer.) A couatl's venom would not become more virulent because of this feat, however, because it deals ability damage and requires the couatl to deal hit point damage in order to deliver it. If you intentionally break your vow, you immediately and irrevocably lose its benefit. If you break your vow as a result of magical compulsion, you lose the benefit of this feat until you perform a suitable penance.
Limit: Must learn from Universal Miscellaneous.

Adapted from: Vow of Non-violence.

Vow of Peace
Rank: "C"
Skill: Supplementary
Effect: To fulfill your vow, you must not deal real damage to any living creature (constructs and undead are not included in this prohibition).
Special: ---
Drawback: User loses effects if you inflict physical damage.
Description:
You are constantly surrounded by a calming aura to a radius of  10 meters. Upon entering this aura creatures must make a successful Will save (10 + 2 per Class Level plus their Enchantment Focus (Compulsion)) or be affected by the calm emotion jutsu, their attitude also makes a positive shift of one. Creatures who re-enter the aura, receive a new saving throw. The aura is treated as a mind-affecting, supernatural compulsion. You also gain a +20 divine bonus on all Acting checks. You also may not use nondamaging spells to incapacitate or weaken living foes so that your allies can kill them--if you incapacitate a foe, you must take him prisoner. If you intentionally break your vow, you immediately and irrevocably lose the benefits. If you break your vow as a result of magical compulsion or otherwise unwittingly, you lose its benefit until you perform a suitable penance.
Limit: Must have Vow of Non-violence.

Adapted from: Vow of Peace
For reference: Compulsion index

Calm Emotions
Rank: "C"
Skill: GenJutsu
Effect: This Jutsu calms agitated creatures.
Special: "Handseals"
Drawback: ---
Description: A Mind-Affecting Technique. Affects all creatures within a 10 meter radius spread. The user is able to perform this technique at a distance of 30 meters plus 15 meters per class level. The duration of this technique lasts for 5 rounds per class level. This technique may be negated. User has no control over the affected creatures, but calm emotions can stop raging creatures from fighting or joyous ones from reveling. Creatures so affected cannot take violent actions (although they can defend themselves) or do anything destructive. Any aggressive action against or damage dealt to a calmed creature immediately breaks the Jutsu on all calmed creatures. This Jutsu automatically suppresses (but does not dispel) any morale bonuses granted by Jutsus such as Bless, Good Hope, and Rage. It also suppresses any Fear effects and removes the Confused condition from all targets. While the Jutsu lasts, a suppressed Jutsu or effect has no effect. When the Calm Emotions Jutsu ends, the original Jutsu or effect takes hold of the creature again, provided that its duration has not expired in the meantime.
Limit: Must know the Compulsion Perception.

Pathfinder's Vow of Poverty definition might be more suitable for the site, this is adapted from it the two sources.

Once you have taken a vow of poverty may never again own more than six possessions—a set of clothing (including headwear), a pair of sandals or shoes, a bowl, a sack, a blanket, and any one other item. Five of these items must be of plain and simple make, though one can be of some value. You may carry enough food to sustain you for one day in the aforementioned sack. You can never keep more money or wealth on his person than he needs to feed, bathe, and shelter himself for 1 week in modest accommodations (3,000 ryo). He cannot borrow or carry wealth or items worth more than 5,000 ryo that belong to others. He is allowed to accept and use curative potions (or similar chakra items where the item is consumed and is valueless thereafter) from other creatures.

The original techniques benefits also scale over 20 levels, so I picked out a few examples that I thought would best suit the site, with our D-S system in mind Source:

1. Endure Elements (Ex): A 3rd-level ascetic is immune to the effects of being in a hot or cold environment. He can exist comfortably in conditions between -50 and 140 degrees Fahrenheit without having to make Fortitude saves (as described in the Dungeon Master's Guide).
2. Sustenance (Ex): At 5th-level ascetic doesn't need to eat or drink. or, Greater Sustenance (Ex): Once he attains 12th level, an ascetic character doesn't need to breathe.
3. Mind Shielding (Ex): Also at 8th level, an ascetic character becomes immune to detect thoughts, discern lies, and any attempt to discern his alignment.
4. Energy Resistance (Ex): At 13th level, an ascetic gains resistance 5 to acid, cold, electricity, fire, and sonic energy. At 20th level, this increases to resistance 15.
5. Freedom of Movement (Ex): At 14th level, an ascetic can act as if continually under the effect of a freedom of movement spell.

[Komusō]

D&D also has a few other vows/oaths that can be adopted, for example, there is an Oath of Vengeance. (In your mind) You become the embodiment of justice, and you administer it with an extreme lack of prejudice becoming the Judge Dredd archetype if you will, these aren't the type of person you can reason with or pay to leave you alone. You can't just ask them to look the other way while you carry out your "Evil" deeds. But alas this archetype at present is just as week as everyone else, they have the same level of resistance to bribery, or intimidation, you can still charm them, and they have no bonus verse their hated foe at all. All I'm saying is when people commit their lives to such extreme ideas; surely they are less susceptible to certain outside factors. Please forgive me if I have misunderstood, but I've always thought Judge Dredd was the embodiment of the law while other judges may have fallen to temptation he always remained resolute in his conviction after all this is the man who works almost 24 hours a day?

Tenets of Vengeance
The tenets of the Oath of Vengeance vary by paladin, but all the tenets revolve around punishing wrongdoers by any means necessary. Paladins who uphold these tenets are willing to sacrifice even their own righteousness to mete out justice upon those who do evil, so the paladins are often neutral or lawful neutral in alignment. The core principles of the tenets are brutally simple.

• Fight the Greater Evil. Faced with a choice of fighting my sworn foes or combating a lesser evil. I choose the greater evil.
• No Mercy for the Wicked. Ordinary foes might win my mercy, but my sworn enemies do not.
• By Any Means Necessary. My qualms can’t get in the way of exterminating my foes.
• Restitution. If my foes wreak ruin on the world, it is because I failed to stop them. I must help those harmed by their misdeeds.

[👺 Usiel]

Hmmm, alright I'll see what I can do. I wont add these in yet, maybe with next birthday expansion. I will take a closer look at these and see what can be done.

[Deleted]

Can I make a vow in losing their chastity with someone? =D