Damage Awareness

[Wolf of the Falls]

So I've noticed that people seem to 'know' damage output and react accordingly such as blocking an attack they know they can block or avoiding one they can't. My suggestion would just be a simple B rank technique or so that can be uni tai or uni nin like shunshin that allows someone to tell the AP an attack will deal. Personally it makes those moments more realistic.

I also thought of bringing this up as a skill but it would create more complications with how it would roll so I changed my idea to just a technique.

[Deleted]

We have exactly that. First and foremost you are not under obligation during a fight to list how much damage your stuff does. Listing techniques is something players do to give each other a bit of leniency. If you are worried about players metagaming from information present then don't release the information as you can't count on most people to be accountable.

The techniques you are talking about are found under the skills "jutsu lore and Martial lore" with those techniques you can recognize the type of jutsu being performed. Note that a character still needs to make the check, they don't just get to auto pass the roll.

[Wolf of the Falls]

All that does is tell you the technique. Case in point Two Layers can be vastly different between two people.

[Not Loki]

Then simply don't list how much damage the tech does. There doesn't need to be techniques for every little thing.

[» Comatose]

There are many other applications I would assume glean particular info on the magnitude and scale of an attack that you may not be factoring into your judgement this is being done unfairly. First are foremost, if your opponent is a ninja beyond literal mechanical skills (as in RP/Game-wise) it can be said that they possess a degree of superior senses compared to a human (this is even ignoring the fact that now NFRP possesses different races, genealogies, and aberrations.) This fact is nearly indisputable and shown within the source material. So with this simple fact and comparing against some of the normal states of human perceptions the sensory world of a ninja would be nothing but miraculous. Mundane humans can sense below single digit degree drops in temperature through skin, fluctuations of pressure through the viscosity of fluid within knee joints, and so on. So to say they could judge to some degree of accuracy what the force beyond attacks is not beyond imagination. This idea extends beyond this when adding on one's characters own experiences, background, and trainings. How would a professional Martial Artist not quite know the magnitude of a punch after delivering and receiving so many? Even if an estimate.

There are to roleplay factors that can be easily molded into usability for this pupose too. Consider this, you start the battle and declare the arena, describing it to your own specifications as first poster:

"There is a forest 10 meters to your left, its 10 meters wide, its trees 5 meters high. On your right there is a river that about 5 meters away, and directly ahead there is a rock, its halfway between the two but 20 meters away from you. Your character knows this."

What have you done here? Well, created a rough grid completely with a scale. I'll leave it to the imagination with how to weave such a thing into narrative but even without any external skills you can now know the size of an attack. This is usually why people don't move on their first post, even more particular if they themselves were the first poster. Drawing the enemy into a grid they constructed.

Similarly, adding in details like plants, rocks, dry soil, etc. All can be used for information to judge characteristics of nearly any attack. Such things form the basis of T1, like it or not.

This leaves me to my final point, noted within the handbook provided by NFRP itself. There are always exceptions depending on jutsu and skills. Particularly, as an older T1 individual myself I feel as though Observation as a skill probably can umbrella give you all these details without much effort. There are a few other skills probably just as helpful when applied to the above, nearly all of them can be used to glean some info.

[Fire Shadow]

I think most of the issue presented originally by wolfy is metagaming. It's already understood that it is not impossible for our characters to have levels of comprehension and awareness as equally impressive as their ability to throw fire or manipulate their souls. The specific issue is knowing exactly what technique to block with when you DON'T have the relevant skill or knowledge to do so legitimately. What seems to be being asked for, is a technique that can justify this metagaming.

If Person A throws a fireball jutsu one round, and the next round, Person A uses the same fireball jutsu with an enhancement that makes it deal acid damage instead, Person B should not instantly know to use their technique that specially protects against acid damage against only the second fireball. The fact that Person B knows this, is a byproduct of their ability to read Person A's post and see such information.

When Person B is confronted with "clearly you read that my second fireball causes acid damage and used an appropriate technique, which is blatant metagaming", Person A is invariably told their definition of metagaming is wrong or off, or that the person 'actually has the skills to do what they did in their profile somewhere, but just forget to quote them or use them', or they legitimize the reasoning informing the metagaming in a manner similar to what Comatose presented.

This is not to say that Comatose was wrong in any way, because he isn't, but the logical points made about how information CAN be gleaned from relevantly presented IC events distracts from the point that THAT ISN'T WHAT IS HAPPENING. In the stated example above with Person A and Person B, Person B can certainly say "Well, my character rationalized it as you wouldn't possibly have thrown the exact same attack at me twice, seeing that it didn't work the first time, so your second attack must have been hiding something. Acid is the only damage type that would seriously hinder my ability to perform handseals at this range given my build, so that's the only thing it would make sense for me to protect against." or something similar! But this is still bullshit, because that isn't actually WHY the person made the decision. The WHY is still metagaming.

On the same note, when I'm in the Cbox (like, me personally) and I'm asking someone to rp with me, or trying to set up an IC fight, or telling someone about the next thing my character will learn...all of that is metagaming too. It is actually unavoidable, because we actually do inhabit both worlds in a way. But we can drastically reduce the impact of metagaming on the IC world by staying aware of what we're doing so as not to blatantly overstep the boundaries of our characters experience, and by NOT doing things like saying that having a specific amount of knowledge in martial arts or basic lore has taught you the exact amount of damage that, for instance, a chakra enhanced bone from out of a person you've never met before's body is going to cause to your second layer of sand covered shark skin. We should also, probably definitely, not be creating even MORE techniques that justify this type of thing.


Sure, it should definitely be possible for you to amass the skills, and the experience to know when/how to legitimately use Martial Lore and Jutsu Lore and all the others, to actually glean from IC sources that a second attack actually deals acid damage specifically, even around how powerful it is, even that isn't necessarily overboard. Overboard is knowing that you can protect against 64 Ap of damage, and miraculously only dodging enemy techniques that cause 65 Ap of damage or more. It would clearly make the problem worse for their to be a technique that let you do what is only otherwise capable of being accomplished through blatant metagaming.

[Cadoc]

Rather than seeking to create a technique that legitimises this metagaming, shouldn't people just be calling it out during fights
and asking for a BM to rule on it?

[» Comatose]

My point was to actually bring up how it is supposed to be done, and what additional factors influence a BMs decision. As a player on the receiving end of what you feel is metagaming you may not be looking at everything objectively or seeing these factors. This is in fact the point of T1, subterfuge and not being entirely forthright with whats happening to a degree.

A battle moderator indeed does only exist to clear such debate.

[Coal]

Why not have a BM position that's not random then? Someone who understands battle, will take the time to study character profiles for nuances in battle that are legitimate or bull, whom the parties involved can send their techs to, will do the rolls, all that jazz? Hell, I would love to do that.

[👺 Usiel]

Then there will be more of a confirmed biased. People knowing who they are, discussing it with others and siding with their friends because they talk more. It also puts a strain on relationships.

[Deleted]

Couldn't you do a combination of what coal suggests and the way it is now? have specific battle mods that you handpick yourself, just don't reveal their identities. They post anonymously under the battle mod accounts, without revealing anything personal, and forbid them from discussing the battle outside of the posts they make on the account, or they get removed from the position.

[Coal]

As you know, I don't do favors in battle, never have and never will. I like to follow the letter of the law when it comes to that. While I may be a bit unruly in the C-box, there is never a time I'll show a bias toward anyone in a battle, regardless of my relationship with them. I do, however, also understand exactly where you're coming from, Heero, and I agree that could be problematic. It would be a tough thing to balance, but that's what rules are for, right? Plus, Battlemods would be monitored just like any other staff positions, major or minor.

[Deleted]

BMs need to be anon for the explicit purpose of insuring there isn't a bias. Most bms if not all are firmly versed in combat and rules on the site because they need to be a moderator or above. Throwing in the random nature of the BM it adds the variable of variance to increase the chances of getting a fair BM.

[Coal]

But that also increases the chances of getting an UNFAIR BM. Why not just have a fair BM or group of fair BMs at all times? If they are fair, then there's no need to be concerned about bias, right? Once they are no longer fair, as Moderators or above should be watching and monitoring, then you remove them and replace them.