A Rather Unpleasant Sight...

[Pricillia "Cillia" Deus]

Greetings, community of NFRP. Most of you may know me and some of you, I may actually be friends with. However, I would like to inform you that unfortunately, you will not be seeing of me in the chatbox for the next week or so, due to the sole reason that I have disobeyed the law of the chatbox by actually baiting a staff member with the sole purpose of exposing their unfairness towards the ways they treat the people in the chatbox and that they abuse their power to such an extend that they even forget to give a warning in three possible situations and in the end, not even specifying the reason of the ban - or at least that was what happened to me. Here, I will actually explain you guys the whole situation from start to finish.

I logged on to the most unsettling sight and it was the sight of seeing a friend of mine, Yoshii!! [Super Lynx] being unfairly treated by the staff member, going by the name Kochou, who I believe has also been charged with treating people unfairly in the past as well and in the exact same way as well. I am not well familiar but I believe that the problem that occured between my friend Yoshi and Kochou was the exact same problem that occured between my friend Kaizu and Kochou and if I didn't do something about it, who knows who else might be having the same problem with that exact same staff member in the future.

It all began with the usage of a single word by Yoshi. Please, Kochou, if you are reading this and don't want to be offended by the usage of the exact same word because of which you have banned two members from the chatbox already in the past, please DO NOT view the spoilers bellow. The word was:

SPOILER: Click to show

Retarded.

re·tard·ed
adjective
1.
characterized by a slowness or limitation in intellectual understanding and awareness, emotional development, academic progress, etc.
2.
Slang. stupid or foolish.

Word was used in the context:
Yoshii!! [Super Lynx]: OH MY GOD Naruto is getting beyond retarded. Its like all the spack of the writer has gotten into the series.

When Yoshi used that word, she didn't direct it at the staff member Kochou and for fact, didn't direct it at anybody in the chatbox but actually at the plots of a manga, with which I doubt the staff member Kochou is in any way related but of course actually reading the said manga... Now, we all have things that we dislike hearing. Some people dislike hearing the word "blond", other dislike hearing the word "fat", "idiotic", "disgusting" and all these people have their reasons for hating the said work, however, in modern society, these people are not allowed to use their power, it being either physical or power given to them by the higher authorities to seek revenge against anybody who uses those words. Imagine if everybody in the world had a word they hated and attacked somebody for saying that word.. Quite chaotic, it would be. Don't you think?

Not to mention the freedom of speech and that everybody is allowed to say whatever they desire as long as it is not disrespecting the rights of another human being, or at least a human being that can be offended by hearing the said word. I doubt that the creators of the Naruto manga would be so greatly offended after hearing Yoshi saying that certain word about their graphical series. I actually believe that if they heared that, they would feel greatly motivated to improve their series as they can really use some improvement at the time being. Back on topic, Yoshi never actually offended the staff member, Kochou in any possible way by saying that word in that context.

Of course, the member, Yoshi was politely warned by the staff member, Kochou in the following line not to use the word again.

[/b] Yoshi, as with belt and Kaizu can you not use that temonology in such a way please"[/ul]

But of course, such a polite 'request' based on fear over something that this staff member did to members in the past for saying that word, based on no reasoning specified to the member, Yoshi was quite invalid, due to the abovementioned reasons. Any person would feel tempted to repeat the word again and naturally, they would have no reason not to as the word only means, in this context, well, 'stupid' or 'foolish', perhaps.

Lets modify the sentence from above for an example, to see how it would sound with either one of those words replacing the word that actually touched a nerve of the staff member, Kochou.

[/b].[/ul]

or

[/b].[/ul]

Now, I doubt that the staff member Kochou would get offended by the usage of either one of those words. Then... why feel offended by the use of their respective synonym? Now, there really wouldn't be a reason for that, would there be? Assuming that same thing, I can see why Yoshi continued using that word while again, NOT directing it towards the staff member Kochou but towards a photo that was linked in the chatbox and she was again refering to the series - Naruto. Please, if you don't want to be offended by the certain word, do not open the spoilers bellow.

SPOILER: Click to show

18/06/14 12:35
Yoshii!! [Super Lynx]: I have nothing against homosexuals and all, but WHY place it inside a Shonen Manga?!
18/06/14 12:34
Yoshii!! [Super Lynx]: Is the exact gay-retarded shit that makes me hate Naruto. UGH

Even if you don't have the entire chat, you can pretty much see that the member, Yoshi, is directing her somewhat offensive comments towards the series which are not in any way related to the staff member, Kochou, who for some reason now gave his 'final warning'.

[/b]?
18/06/14 12:35
Kochou: Yoshi final warning about using the term 'WORD CENSORED' I don't care about any gayremarks[/ul]

So, here, the staff member Kochou has finally given a proper reasoning why he didn't like to hear that word - because he took it personally. Well, forgive me if I am disrespectful, but don't we all have this one word that we all take personally? We don't warn to ban people or to fire them... or to beat them, or whatever because they simply use that word, do we? However, here, the staff member Kochou is clearly showing that he has the power to place a ban over the member Yoshi for using a word that he personally didn't accept. In a reaction to that, the member Yoshi made a quite valid statement and an arguement has began, in which the member, Yosh was rather respectful to the staff member, Kochou, even though he was at fault at that time.

Did you notice that the member Yoshi actually mentioned the freedom of speech. Take that under cosideration as she clearly does have a point. In the end, the member Yoshi, logically got angry at all the foolishness (not using the synonym version of the word because of reasons) that she was surrounded and linked something, again, not directing it at ANYBODY but plainly posting the link in the spoilers bellow.

SPOILER: Click to show

Link.

While it is clearly obvious that Yoshi is posting that video because of that situation, the video has nothing to do with the staff member Kochou and is actually rather amusing if you look at the whole thing... It is actually funny and entertaining, in a way. After posting that video, Yoshi was replied with a single message:

At the sight of that message, as well as the unfairness of the way the ban was set upon Yoshi, I couldn't resist no more and actually said something and thus, a small conversation started about where Yoshi was going.

Apparently, the staff member Kochou saw no reason to reply, so I decided to make it more personal as I cannot really stand and just watch while my friends on here are getting tormented by authority because they said something that is not actually a forbidden thing to say... So, that and all, I made a slight impersonation of the staff member, Kochou in the following lines that actually prove my rightful point about the whole situation. The whole following situation occurred, ending up with my ban.

That is the whole situation behind my ban and I really failed to notice the part with the first warning from Kochou who banned me.. or the second warning, for fact.. Or the third one... Or the actual reason he banned me for... I am also missing a PM notifying me about the length of my ban with details at exactly what time I am able to post after a week. I have had problems with that PM part in the past and I had my ban extended because the CBox allowed me to post before the ban was completely over and I got my ban extended. The staff member, Kochou didn't really say much after he abused his authority over me, acting as if nothing actually happened, as if I, the normal member was NOTHING, compared to his almighty being, who with a single click of a button can mute me, stop my speech and silence me for a week without needing a reason - just because of the power. Or at least that is how it felt to me, this unfair, so unfair ban.

So, now that I have actually informed you about the whole situation, I will leave it to you to find the solution. I think that the head staff and the administrator of the site are reasonable enough people to decide what to do. I will happily carry my ban throughly as I earned it anyways (even though there were a number of rules from the side of the staff member, Kochou that weren't followed to execute my ban completely.)

I have been here for roughly two years now and have not even once disrespected anybody so I don't find it how it is fair for me and my speech to be disrespected in such a way. Yoshi's free speech also. Unfairness. This is the reason here. Unfairness.

With all due respect,
Mih.

[/div][/font]

[The Roar of the Falls]

Hmmm....


Considering that I was here for the entirety of said situation I can see where I said "This is entirely unnecessary ." It not in the chat logs, but that in irrelevant. This could have been handled much better by all three parties respectively.


In the end the situation escalated much too far past what it should have been, and though I am sympathetic to the reasoning of Yoshi, I do not see the ban to be that of just a usage of a word that was used in a certain context, considering I do feel their use of the word was not in a derogatory or demeaning manner at an individual, but the fact that this has happened before. With other members. And the results were precisely the same.


Instead of bucking at on another this should have gone to PM's first off, and the persistent arguing did not help the case. To express a technicality, the video persisted of a man telling another that he was "Retarded" which obvious counters everything Yoshi was saying about why she was using the word as such. That is to say, the ban was not issued until after the video link was posted, which the constant pressing of the matter could simply be considered baiting. But off of that and onto your ban.

I will say that I have never seen you openly and blatantly disrespectful, to your credit, and in that regard I respect you for such. However, even though you may not have ever been in trouble directly you have been here long enough to have seen the rules, read them at least and know what the unacceptable things are. It is very common for staff to not discuss the reason for the banning of other for the EXACT reason that it would only incite more arguments of people stating their 'reasons' why they think it is unfair. That is what the complaint area is for.

Instead of seeking out Ko, or any head staff, in PM's or making a complaint thread prior to what you posted, you instead went on mocking Ko with:

SPOILER: Click to show

18/06/14 13:19
Mih: Please Kaizu, don't use the word 'unfortunately' I find it personally offensive and hostile whilst reminding me of my unfortunate relationship status. First official warning.
___________________________________

18/06/14 13:22
Mih: Please, don't use the number 'one' as I find it personally offensive and hostile whilst reminding me that I always ended up being second or last at whatever I tried taking up, never the first. Second official warning & you are walking on very thin ice right now.
____________________________________

18/06/14 13:24
Mih: Please, don't use the word 'breathe' as I find it personally offensive and hostile whilst reminding me how I was in a suffocating relationship with a girl in the past and this mister was your final warning. You would be frying if I had the power to do that..

Now you and I both know you have been here long enough for that to be Flaming and possibly baiting as well. It was entirely uncalled for and though you may have felt that what happened to Yoshi was unfair, there were better ways to express your point. I stand by the fact you wanted to express your point and felt what happened to your friend was unfair, but the way you went about it was not proper and mocking or showing out in the Chat has never done anything but...well...this.

If you do truly feel what happens is unfair in the c-box, or that any staff member is abusing their power; simply copy those logs and send them to Ayame/Tie or Heero. That is always the best solution before it comes to this point. This could and should have been handled more properly.

I am really sorry it came to this Mih, but this is not the first time a traditional warning has been foregone when punishing veteran members/posters [Usually those here longer than 8-12 months], and that they know what is and isnt against the rules on a basic level.

I, of course, have no power over this situation but this is what I see and felt for this particular situation. Please try not to let the situation get to you and act out openly, it never ends well for either party hun. This is my unbiased opinion of the situation at hand.

[Yoshi [Lynx!]]

The reason why I even started arguing in the Cbox was because Kochou publicly stated that I was getting a warning, and that I would be banned. Matters of delicacy like that could've easily been handeled by stating something such as: "Yoshi, check your Inbox, please." To which all my replies would've been in private rather than forcing me to defend myself in the Cbox or look like I bow down to his censorship tyranny. I used a word, which I even provided the definition of, stating quite clearly that it was in respect to an object and thus, obviously, could not be inferred as mental retardation. I asked -kindly- that Kochou accepted my different viewpoint, although I admit I was flustered to have my Freedom of speech assaulted when merely stating my viewpoint on the newest Naruto chapter. The only comment I got, was that he would take it up with other staff and issue a ban if they so saw fit.

Me linking the video of college humor, was precisely to show how the word has no honest power. It is used as a joke, a lighthearted insult between friends, and even to create a mass of laughs by an overly well known group; College Humor. If this content was so offensive, you'd assume Youtube had pulled it from the site, or that the discussion would've been way more vivid. In this situation, neither were the case.

Kochou belongs to a vast minority, and wheter he is staff or another member, I am going to be treating him the same I would anyone else. I respect and acknowledge that he finds it offensive if I called another member retarded. I respect and acknowledge that insulting others is a direct violation of the rules of NFRP.
I will not accept having my perfectly reasonable everyday language moderated to acommodate others feeling unreasonably butthurt. I will not accept staff so openly abusing their powers to enforce viewpoint. I am ready to deal with the consequenses of my standpoint, too.

[The Roar of the Falls]

If you want to pursue a complain Yoshi, please make a complaint thread to prevent confusion. I do understand that the two situations were related, but for the sake of clear conversation, and the fact this is to deal with Mih' personal banning from the C-box, please make a thread if you have a complaint hun.

Should you wish to pursue such, your issue or concerns will be addressed there. ^^

[Pricillia "Cillia" Deus]

Isley, I have always respected you for your always spot-on opinion and am really glad that this was the case here as well. However, you are mistaking about a small part of what you said to Yoshi in this previous message of yours. I am not issuing this thread to 'complain about my own ban' in the chatbox as the ban was entirely deserved and actually on purpose so I could prove to myself, NFRP and Kochou himself how unfair he has been acting towards Yoshi and myself, so I do believe that Yoshi's opinion on this thread is actually quite spot on and actually necessary.

If I would take it to the PM's, then, the case would be resolved with a number of messages where I would be stripped off my opinion because the difference in the titles we are holding. So I decided to make it public so other people could actually have an opinion themselves because I got banned with no warning or stated reason, but I am okay with that. Yoshi, and Kaizu, in the past, have been banned for a stated reason which was unfair and was nothing more than abuse of power, because if Kochou wasn't a staff member, I doubt ANY of the other staff members would want to deal with him complaining about a certain word someone has used not directing that word to Kochou. Especially if that word is not disrespecting anybody's rights and is actually a commonly accepted term.

For an example, somebody could issue something against Kochou at the time he said what he said what you have copied in your signature, Isley.

Aids? A person could find the medical term used somewhat wrongly and could hate it, for an example, if they had that certain disease. However, these people wouldn't be able to do anything about it because this is a commonly accepted word and is used worldwide by ordinary people and doctors, even. This would be pretty much the case here as well and that is why I gave those three examples in my chatbox which resulted my ban and apparently, people there agreed on me that that was the case and that I was right in the situation - that Yoshi's ban was wrong and that Kaizu's ban in the past was wrong as well...

At that time, nobody issued the word "aids" as problematic in the past and nobody has been avoiding that word because it really isn't a word that should be avoided... And even if somebody DID find it problematic, for an example, nobody would do anything about it.

And they would indeed be correct so tell me, in this case, why does Kochou get to use his power against people saying a word he personally dislikes? I see no reason at all he would do that as as much wouldn't have been done for an ordinary member of the site. A person with diabetics could for an example find anything sugar related as offensive, but people can't stop talking about sweets, can they? If we could afford to have everybody having this one word they hate, the discussions in the chatbox would pretty much be one or two worded and would mostly consist greetings.. We don't want that though, do we? We don't because it shouldn't be that way, but imagine if everybody had Kochou's power and they went against the word they found wrong in the certain situation? Well, unlucky us, normal members.

This thread was not issued so I could complain about my personal ban - I will carry it through as I have done so in the past, however, the reason behind this thread is different. It is to fight injustice and authority that abuses their power. It has been pretty clear that Kochou has a thing for staff power in the past as well. Anybody would remember him saying something between the lines of "Fear me chatbox" or something like that the moment he got his staff powers and that he deleted a number of messages after that to simply show that he is able to. Is that right?

[Solus]

I think that everyone has stated here what is important to them in this situation. I'd prefer not to see a heated debate evolve here, especially since those involved have already spoken their part (happens when a third party steps in). Emotions are high on this, I get that. We are currently addressing this situation with the whole of staff now so please stand by until we have reached consensus on this.

[Solus]

I know this is all a bit late since the ban expired today but here is the gist of the story. The c-box bans will be uphold, not so much because of the use of the word 'retarded' but due to your reactions after Ko asked you not to use it.

Both basically for baiting.

Mih, you admit that you did it on purpose and knew that you would probably be banned for it so I'll not address this any further.

Yoshi, in your case you weren't banned for using the word 'retarded', but because you kept pushing the issue after Ko asked you not to use that particular word. In fact, you weren't banned until after you posted the link to the college humour video. Now in any other situation it might have been funny, but in this context it was baiting Ko and for that you were banned.

What should have been done: Next time you get an issue like this, do not address the issue in the c-box, the box is zero tolerance and thus not meant for such discussions. Next time instead, PM a staff member of a higher rank than the one you have a problem with, explain the problem to him or her and include logs of the incident if you have them. Then the entire thing will be handled by staff without bans and hopefully without hurt feelings on both sides of the argument.

I hope that this has informed both of you about the position of staff on this issue sufficiently,

~Solus

[Pricillia "Cillia" Deus]

Too late? It's never too late as it is just as I told you - and you pretty much get the point. I got myself banned on purpose and was ready from the very beginning to take full responsibility for my ban. Baiting Kochou? YES. That was pretty much the whole bloody idea behind getting my own self banned. The ban expires today in a number of hours and I and Yoshi will again be able to post in the chatbox, but this thread wasn't issued because we were unable to do so in the first place... You see, I am the type of person that you will most likely never see trying to bitch over a ban, especially if I know that I was pretty much asking for it and Yoshi is more intelligent than that too. The reason behind getting myself banned was because of the unfairness and yes, I did bait Kochou but it was in the most literate way ever. I challenged to ban him in a way that he would simply abuse his staff powers like he normally would and he felt for the bait, proving that he is not entirely incapable of doing that with other members too. Actually, he has. My part in this ban is not a part that should be ignored as it is pretty much the roots of the problem. THE ABUSE OF STAFFPOWER.

Solus, you are a staff for a long time now... Tell me, do you have words that you hate in the world? I bet you do - everybody has something they hate or simply dislike. Even if it is just a simple topic - not a word (or a commonly accepted medical term). Why have I never heard of you banning somebody about the use of a word or the discussion of a topic. Of course, if the discussion was overly offensive, I can see no reason for you not to or if it was obvious hatred directed to you - I understand completely USING your given authority to mute the person is the right thing to do, however, Yoshi did nothing like that.

If Yoshi for an example said something like: "Ko, you are [word of hatred here... you know.. that word]" Then the ban would actually be pretty much reasonable and actually asked for, but SHE DIDN'T SAY THAT. The ban expires, so what? The unfairness remains. The staff have reached a decision that this is all fair and an adequate decision of Kochou to simply abuse his powers to place censorship at words not even directed to him? Hmmm. I truly doubt that - the staff members here are too intelligent to come up with a decision like that and they see where Kochou is at fault... They saw it the first time this happened with Kaizu a while ago and they saw the fault of Kochou this time too. Let me think what might have happened... Kochou denied and didn't admit doing anything wrong and the staff members had their hands tied as everybody has their right to believe that what they did or said is right or wrong, especially if they have been given the power they have for a reason and after proving themselves. (like how it is required for somebody to become a staff member in the chatbox).

He has already proved himself a couple of times, if I am not mistaking and don't get me wrong, he is one hell of a staff member, but allowing himself to abuse his powers like that is something that he is not allowed to do and the staff members know that, however, they can do nothing about it. I am perfectly aware that a discussion took place as you told me so on your previous post and I pretty much had an idea what was going through the discussion before it started, even.

[/b] Ko, did you do something wrong?
Ko: NO!
Staff: But you did, we can all see it!
Ko: NO! NO! NO!
Staff: Just admit it!
Ko: I AM NOT AT FAULT HERE THEY JUST HATE ME CAUSE OF REASONS.
Staff: Sigh.
Ko: We are letting this pass through right?[/ul]

And while the way I imagine things went through is rather comical (I have a cheery persona), the situation remains as serious as it is. Kochou abused his staff power... Solus, I read the remaining part of your post as well, not only the part directed to me.

So, Yoshi continuing using the term after asked not to got her banned and not the usage of the term. Ko doesn't have the right to ban the term in the first place and the way I baited him pretty much proves that. So even if the continuation of the term was the reason Yoshi got banned, the ban is still unfair as the term shouldn't even be discussed like it was and simply avoided, like every other single bloody offensive word in the chatbox that has gone and probably still goes around. The way I baited Kochou proves that every word can be offensive to anyone and that I don't have the right to ban the words, so neither does Kochou.

Just like Yoshi said, what if her stripper name was "Kitten" and that she found the usage of the word offensive? Would anybody ban that word... Sorry for using it, by the way. I know it must be painful, Yoshi-san, but it is for a good cause - justice. The same way Kochou banned the word he believed was 'hate speech', everybody can list a plethora of words that they find offensive in some way... Will a ban be issued every time somebody uses some of these words. I'd say that there is no bloody way of anything like that happening. The bans lifted and all, the issue and the problem stays and I would like a second discussion over the topic as I know that you know that Kochou is at absolute fault and that this has to stop as it has been going around for quite the while and everybody knows it.            

[/div][/font]

[Tieren]

Allow me to step in and say something here...

You say that we have looked the other way regarding Ko and what he has done. The fact is that you don't have all the facts regarding it. Why? because it's not a matter that concerns you at this point. What happens to Ko and the ultimate ruling that we make regarding him is up to Ayame, Heero, and myself. We don't have to make this ruling public. Nor do we have to inform you of it.

I will say this much, however. The word "retard" and various forms of that word was been wrongfully censored. We did decide that no one else was going to get banned for using that word in that manner. IF you call someone else that word, then it's a different story. But if it's just used in the manner that Belt and Yoshi used it, then there is no problem with it.

I don't need to talk to you about your ban, Mih. You understand why you got it and intended for it to happen. As for Yoshi's ban, as was stated, it didn't happen until after the situation had died down, and Yoshi decided to post up that video, re-escalating the problem.

For future reference to both of you, and any that might be reading this thread... If there's a problem in the cbox, whether a staff member is involved or not... Copy the logs, send them to Me, Heero, or Ayame, and we'll take care of it. Heero can go back and ban someone for something in the cbox after it's left that main page, and if it's a staff member, we can take other measures as well. Escalating the situation causes worse things to happen. And believe me, I understand it's not easy just stepping away and letting people say whatever. But if you do, you won't get in trouble for it either.

But in regards to Ko, don't worry about what is happening with him. That is up to Head Staff to worry about. As you have mentioned already, you'll be able to post in the cbox shortly (If you haven't already been able to)

In the meantime, forgive me Mih, but I'm locking this thread. I don't want things to get even more out of hand. If you have more to say, you're welcome to PM me and I'll be happy to help you out as best as I can.

Thread locked.