Unfairness?

[Okami]

Name: Okami
Age: 17
Gender: Male
Type of Complaint: Unfairness
Insident Link: www.narutoforumrp.proboards75.com/index.cgi?board=landofthesea&action=display&thread=38889&page=1
Complaint:

(Note, I speak for my partner and myself when I say "I" in my reasoning simply because this is the way the thoughts flow into my head.)

Now I do not have much time right now, as I am still on vacation, so may be poorly thought out. I think the calls made in this battle were very poor. Every single post I made, no matter how much reasoning I gave, was shot down, while every other team had their posts accepted fully. I don't know what was going on, but that didn't seem right to me. My attacks were all voided for some reason another. I aparently lacked description in my set up and execution despite descibing my attacks with a longer post than all of the other teams combined.

I gave multiple reasons for my defense to work, all seperate from each other, because of the reason my posts were getting shot down far too harshly in my opinion. Yet he finds one debateable hole in one of my multiple reasons for defense, and instantly declares the defense null? The very reason I gave multiple reasons was so that if one was disproven I would have something to fall back on The reasonings did not require each other to be successful, but were all seperate arguments.

The hole he fouund in this defense would not have changed the outcome of the dodge anyways. He said my warriors mind would not work (which is debatable), but even if it did not work, I would have moved upwards to dodge the senbon. If that is unacceptable, then Ryoushi stated that his eyes could see the chakra trails and he would have warned me. This is just one of multiple aspects of the calls I found unacceptable. I may be biased myself considering my point of view, but this appears like a very poorly judged exam.

Solution:

I would like a seperate battle mod or higher staff to review this fight, and if the second and (if necessary) third opinion varies from his call, I would like the examiner replaced. I do not believe he will simply stop his bias after seeing this complaint, it would in fact grow worse. I do not know what sort of bias is going on here, but there appears to be a clear bias against me in this situation.

If anyone who reads this complaint agrees my posts lacked description and were poorly thought out, then calling in a second opinion should be no problem for you. If you agree that my posts were acceptable then a second opinion would be the way to prove that. There should be no problem here.

I apologize to you all for taking the "whiney" route that is so frowned upon here, but I truly believe that his calls were unacceptable. My partner Ryoushi has sent him pms in the past and apparently his responses were full of angry words and that "it is not a good idea to piss off your examiner" or something like that. He did not seem calm or reasonable, but just angry and spiteful. He blatently denied my the right to post up a response in the thread, and he basically yells "fuck off" at us when we pm him about the situation, so I don't see any other option besides a complaint thread.

[Tenkai]

Did you try PM'ing the other three examiners to review the thread..? They are like Battle Mods, more then one can be called in to review the threads and ultimately make a final decision. Staff already has enough on their hands xD Let the examiners handle this one, together. ~_^

[Ryoushi, Vulture]

I didn't have a chance to contact Okami on this, because he is on vacation. I would've thought that he wouldn't see the current events for a little while. So I apologize for doubling up, but it just gives all the more valid reasoning. I would've just posted in here if I had known, so my apologies regarding that, and consuming additional staff time. At the same time, I thank the said staff for it.

But all the same, this hammers the point in even more. We each show undoubtedly legitimate claims, or at least worth consideration. Unless needed for any further reason or information, you'll not hear a peep out of me. It is now for the examiners to decide. Sorry for going to the complaints board it's not something I want to do, but I truly wouldn't unless there's some serious mistreatment or unfairness going on. In my own humble opinion.

[Okami]

I expected as much. I would have contacted the examiners and discussed it with them myselves, but I have only a small amount of time to log on in the day, and I thought that putting this up for the examiners and staff to see would be the most efficient way to go about informing people of my opinion with my limited time. Thanks for the quick response.

[Tenkai]

It's cool. You handled the situation rather well, regardless of whatever the examiners will decide I guess. ;~;

[Chuunin Examiner 4]

I went with my best judgement on this case, Warrior's Mind is used to detect attacks coming at yourself. If someone were to shoot an arrow at a friend next to you they're on their own, you can't detect it to help them from what i've read of it. For the distance (A concern from the other complaint) There is no part of any post where I read you being any distance apart from each other. Now, for the projectile dodges, the way you put it, it seems to me you move up to avoid the projectiles, then up again to avoid the water so my assumption. Also, you say you only lifted a few feet in the air, still ample room for most of his body to be mostly encased in the ice, rapid expansion. For the Sankakugan (again, other complaint), to see the chakra trail first you have to be looking at it and not in the other direction.

Now for your last attack I judged against, maybe if your setup had been more then just:

The man would slide across the ground and a couple of slips of paper he would drop, and his magnificent leadership would shine through.

You would have had a successful attack, and if you had such a big problem with my ruling why didn't you PM me to argue your point?

Why make a complaint anyways? Why not PM me with your views and give me your reasonings? Is this about me seeming to "target" Cloud? If so its because you are the only ones with posts I primarily find problems in, when I find them I give my views.

Just giving my reasoning, I'll leave this to the other Examiners.

[Okami]

I did not intend for this thread to be a place to argue the specifics of the posts, but I suppose I can respond to you.

Warriors mind could be used in this case because we are chained together, standing arm to arm on my own metal platform. The water would be hitting the chain, my metal disc, and perhaps even touching me. Even if warriors mind did not work, what prevents me from simply knowing they are not dead due to the sound of them running around. That would be reason enough on its own to perhaps move.

For the dodge, I moved up a few feet using magnetic tempest only to get my weapons out jisei's range. Then I could use both magnetic tempest and jisei to move me at a fantastic speed much higher than that. I moved a great distance upwards in one motion, the first few feet was only descibed to alleviate concern of jisei afecting my weapons negativly. I moved upwards once to dodge the senbon, and it would serve its purpose in dodging the water as well.

I dropped the tags from my own body. Therefore, all set up concerning the placement of my own body was actually set up of the placement of the tags. I clearly waited for them to get ahead of me, then slid directly past, dropping the tags as I went, then stopped to see if they would simply continue forwards. As they did not see my tags and simply wandered about aimlessly thy should have come close enough to get hit. You did not appreciate this I guess and nulled my attack.

The jisei i thought was assumed to have moved to their location without the physical act of throwing the field. It says it can be thrown or controled according to my will, and I chose the latter.

Off the top of my head these are the problems that made me assume bias with your judgement. You target my reasoning for moving, but not their reasoning for attacking me. There is no way they could automaticaly know that the unexplained explosion was caused by me, as explained in my post. You found a reason to call everything I did bogus, and it did not seem right to me. Sorry if I offended you by making this complaint, but I want to make sure I am not wrongrully expelled and my partner not wrongfully killed.

I don't understand any reason why you would target us. Perhaps the first call you made was your own opinion and then the second call you were annoyed with Ryoushi's pm's and that is where the harshness of the second call came from. I did not pm you because you seemed to be annoyed by the pms already. You were already swearing at Ryoushi and telling him not to piss you off anymore, so I figured I would hope for better calls in the future. Also because if you did not see it my way I would have to wait a day or so to respond. One reply a day conversations do not get things done fast.

(Note: If we should not be arguing here then just lock the thread. I can't help myself from arguing back so someone else better stop me.)

[Loki, Lord of Mischief!]

In addition to the Examiner's post i would also like to make a post about this. Before i begin, I apologize if this is not allowed or for anything that i say in which i have offend anyone in this thread or for those who have read it. I must say after talking to several staff members, Assistants, Battle mods, Mods and even head staff, i have gotten mixed reviews over this fight. What it really comes down to is the warriors mind and how it works. In your post Okami, you say that you detected us with Warrior's mind before we even attack and that we are still alive which is not how the Warrior's mind works. It only works when the user of the jutsu is in the process of being flanked. I think the problem here is that you have the warrior's mind activated before i even attack which is not how the specific jutsu works.

Jimmu was not looking at his all opponents, but that in no way meant he had simply disregarded them. His Warrior’s Mind was constantly alert and wary of opposing presences and even their attacks.

If im not mistaken, that using the technique completely wrong. When i read this technique and Second Sense, i thought of something along the lines of spidey sense from spiderman. Now a different question comes to along the line as flanking. After talking to one of the staffers about this they brought up the argument of what is flanking? From different dictionaries i receive the definition of a flank is being attacked from behind or by the side. No way does flanking say that attacks from below or above are flanking attacks.

flanked
One entry found.

Main Entry:
2flank
Function:
transitive verb
Date:
1594

1 a: to be situated at the side of ; especially : to be situated on both sides of <a road flanked with linden trees>
b: to place something on each side of

2: to protect a flank of

3: to attack or threaten the flank of (as a body of troops)

Source: here

Now if this is the case, then your warrior's mind technique wouldn't even pick up on the attack. These are my thoughts as to why the technique is flawed. Over all its really vague on what it can dodge or what all it can dodge. And like is stated before, Warrior's mind doesn't specify other targets that are targeting you. That even goes for your chains but i could be wrong about all this.

As far as the examiner goes, if he did respond to you in such a way then i think it should be handled accordingly. However, I can't see a member of staff doing something along these lines unless he or she was offended in someway shape or form from a Pm by someone else. I may be mistaken but that just doesn't seem like the whole story.

[Axcel]

Warrior's mind is intended to defend against all surprise attacks.

This technique makes it where the Kurējī Ryuu Hiden discipline fighter is incapable of being surprised attacked

[bakuu]

^^ one person.

It cleary states the Kureji Ryuu Hiden discipline fighter is incapable of being surprised attacked not the Kureji Ryuu Hiden's partner.

[daansn3]

Ok this is ridiculous, it's this shit right here that makes people say NFRP is getting too technical. He is four feet at the max away from his partner, meaning anything coming at his partner is close enough to worry him. This isn't some magical ability that tells you when your being targeted, it's an innate ability that comes from getting used to being surprise attacked and learning to sense them. Hence something that would enter into his close proximity, I.E less then four feet obviously, would set off his trained ability to sense close proximity surprise attacks.

[Leonov]

Mar 18, 2009 12:42:50 GMT -7 @daansn3 said:

Ok this is ridiculous, it's this shit right here that makes people say NFRP is getting too technical. He is four feet at the max away from his partner, meaning anything coming at his partner is close enough to worry him. This isn't some magical ability that tells you when your being targeted, it's an innate ability that comes from getting used to being surprise attacked and learning to sense them. Hence something that would enter into his close proximity, I.E less then four feet obviously, would set off his trained ability to sense close proximity surprise attacks.

Not only that, you're proving that Heero's "no-war" policy is right, everyone's gonna be bitching and whining and no progress will be made.

That's 2 to 0, "No War" is winning... >_>

[Elgar]

Ok, everyone stop. The jutsu states that it helps the person dodge attacks. The Fighter. Not the fighter's partner. Not the fighter's pet. Not the fighter's damn mother. The Fighter and the fighter alone. I don't care how close they are. The problem has been stated. OH no you died. Revamps are there for a reason. It's not like you lost your character forever. And Okami you can just go to the next exam it's no big deal. NOW. If anything else needs to be said let Staff or the Examiners post something. No one else.

Leon there was no point for you to post that. It will only cause more problems.

[bakuu]

If your character dies your partner fails too though. So.....-scratches head-

[Chuunin Examiner 4]

First off, I will repeat myself seeing that I wasn't clear...
I AM NOT TARGETING CLOUD, MY JUDGEMENTS ARE BASED ON MY INTERPRETATION OF POSTS.

Now, on to business. When I read your post dodging the way I interpreted it was that you moved up a few feet to dodge the projectiles Mist threw. That worked and you dodged and Okami blocked the other weapon(s) coming at you. Then I continue and see you use Warrior's mind to detect an attack not meant for you, and seeing that no where it states how far apart you and Ryoushi are or how big the disk is, I assumed you weren't right next to each other and far enough apart for you not to be hit. Seeing that Ryoushi is organizing a butt load of weapons on the disk gives me more cause to think its big enough for him to be far enough away. So, taking those factors into consideration I formed my conclusion. And Axcel, if the attack isn't going to affect you directly you wont detect it with Warrior's Mind.

For the tags, I've read and re-read your post placing the tags several times before making my decision and now. I come to the same conclusion, Rain is safe because of your lack of description. You just say you slide along and drop some tags on the ground, no where do you say where they are until you try and use them to kill Rain. When I read those two posts its like, "I slide along a bit above the ground and drop some paper. Oh yeah, the paper is tags (completely legit move there) and they're behind Rain (not so good there)." You didn't seem to have a target in mind until you detonated them.

On to Jisei, okay when I read it before I misinterpreted the jutsu. I read it as it having to be thrown and the metal being controled according to your will. I've re-read it now and see my mistake there, sorry. What can I say, I may be like a god to you, being your examiner and all, but I'm still only human and humans make mistakes. XD

I was pissed at Ryoushi because he told me I failed at my job for not doing things the way he wanted me to. That would be like me sayign you failed as an Assistant because you didn't grade something the way I wanted you to, or someone telling Ryoushi he failed as a Battle Mod because they didn't like the outcome he came too on their fight. That coupled with the bad day I had already been having just made me explode so Ryoushi, if you end up reading this, I appologize for exploding on you like that. However, I moved on after he appologized for that and didn't let it affeect my judgement.

(Note: You aren't the only one that can't stop themself from argueing their points, and here I was trying not to do this. xD)

[Ryoushi, Vulture]

Well I had a whole response typed up for your first post Examiner 4, but I decided I would stick to my word and not post, and let you have your right of defending yourself while this discussion was to be PRIVATELY HANDLED BY THE EXAMINERS AND THE EXAMINERS ONLY. The admin's own words.



I never accused you of targeting cloud, I don't think you would sink so low as to attack a village for the village. But I am saying you did seem upset when talking to me in private...

SPOILER: Click to show

"...I was pissed at Ryoushi...". You admit it

so it's not out of the ordinary to be curious after such a sudden unexpected death, without even verifying with any other examiners. Don't take another persons opinion so seriously, I said then you fail your job as a game master, and that was because everyone made valid legit search efforts, and we received no response in return. We don't have to find the scrolls but at least give us a clue or some path to follow, then be a good game master and whip up scenarios for each of us. If you had given us all a good path to follow then perhaps more attention would've been payed to finding the scrolls instead of slicing each other's heads off. A mature person would know that's just my own humble little opinion and if you have self confidence, then you can know in your head that I'm full of crap, if that were the case, but instead you became angry with me. I've been respectful to you this whole time mainly until now. In my first pm the first thing I said was "With all due to respect, but I think your last post was pretty poor and should be reconsidered.". The last PM I sent to you clearly spell out that I'll just have to get over our differences and apologized. But then this.




Here are my words for you right fucking here people.

SPOILER: Click to show

Suiton Seibun Houfutsu (Water Cannon Replica)
Rank: "B"
Skill: NinJutsu
Effect: ---
Special: Handseals
Drawback: Must have knowledge of water source around the area. Must have a way to where the user is capable of sensing water around the user. The soil must be fresh, and trees must exist forth.
Description: Water seaps out of the ground and engolfs them with a round ball of water. Which causes them to drown slowly due to the fact that the opponent is stuck within the water. This Jutsu can not be destroyed from inside out, nor outside in unless you split out the particals of the water in one fell swoop of motion. Example: Chouji Slamming into the water by using his massive weight. The water is capable of floating in the air, and the User does not need to be in contact with the Ball at any time which is needed for the sister technique known as the Water Prison Technique.
Limits: Must know the Water Prison Technique, and Water must be in the area.
Limit: Water Release




Are there trees on a beach? At the edge of the beach in what has been stated to be over 40 meters away from the forest!!! Is sand fucking fresh people??? ITS SAND!!!! NO

Case. Effing. Closed.

[Loki, Lord of Mischief!]

Here is the deal with the technique, I can use it on two occasions.

1.) If i don't have water and the ground has life in it, i can use the water from the plants and ground to attack the user instead of using my own.

2.) If there is water present in the location, Which the last time i checked, an Island is surrounded by water. + I even state that i use the water from my gourd to attack you with it. I'm pretty sure that i'm in my right to attack you with the technique as long as I have a water source in question, whether it be from the surrounding plant life that it steals if from or from my gourd or sea water surrounding it. In this case, i'm pretty sure i can use my techniques. Secondly, calm down, there is no need to start cursing up a storm in the thread.

SPOILER: Click to show

Suiton Seibun Houfutsu (Water Cannon Replica)
Rank: "B"
Skill: NinJutsu
Effect: ---
Special: Handseals
Drawback: Must have knowledge of water source around the area. Must have a way to where the user is capable of sensing water around the user. The soil must be fresh, and trees must exist forth.
Description: Water seaps out of the ground and engolfs them with a round ball of water. Which causes them to drown slowly due to the fact that the opponent is stuck within the water. This Jutsu can not be destroyed from inside out, nor outside in unless you split out the particals of the water in one fell swoop of motion. Example: Chouji Slamming into the water by using his massive weight. The water is capable of floating in the air, and the User does not need to be in contact with the Ball at any time which is needed for the sister technique known as the Water Prison Technique.
Limits: Must know the Water Prison Technique, and Water must be in the area.
Limit: Water Release

P.S. Is it possible to lock this thread to either staff or the examiners make up there minds? I mean i really don't want this to get anymore heated.

[Ryoushi, Vulture]

No. The technique you used (An AoE technique which Jimmu would be directly effected by when we're this close) requires fresh soil and plants. There's water in fresh soil and there's water on a beach. It says nothing about that HAVING to be your water source. It could be for any other number of reason unspeculatable that soil and trees are need, but right now that's not for us to decide, or the main issue here.

The main issue here is the type is set in stone right before your eyes. Read it. FRESH SOIL. TREES. YOU MUST HAVE THEM. No ifs ands or buts.

[Saiyuki]

SPOILER: Click to show

Suiton Seibun Houfutsu (Water Cannon Replica)
Rank: "B"
Skill: NinJutsu
Effect: ---
Special: Handseals
Drawback: Must have knowledge of water source around the area. Must have a way to where the user is capable of sensing water around the user. The soil must be fresh, and trees must exist forth.
Description: Water seaps out of the ground and engolfs them with a round ball of water. Which causes them to drown slowly due to the fact that the opponent is stuck within the water. This Jutsu can not be destroyed from inside out, nor outside in unless you split out the particals of the water in one fell swoop of motion. Example: Chouji Slamming into the water by using his massive weight. The water is capable of floating in the air, and the User does not need to be in contact with the Ball at any time which is needed for the sister technique known as the Water Prison Technique.
Limits: Must know the Water Prison Technique, and Water must be in the area.
Limit: Water Release

I hope no one minds my posting, but Ryoushi, I ask you to please read the whole drawback. The meaning of the drawback is that the user must know that there is water around them. Fresh soil and trees signify that there is water in the area. That is most likely what the creator of the technique meant. However, in this case, we have our water, hence the drawback does not apply to us. I hope that this makes sense to you, Ryoushi.

[Ryoushi, Vulture]

Fresh, living, organic, filled with life and fertility and organic things, and able to have trees in them. Unlike nonliving sand. Maybe it just has to do with the type of ground and because there's water everywhere in fresh soil (and water has the tendacy to attract and stick to itself) the jutstu's water can travel at the neccasary speeds for the jutsu to be useful. But the top layer of sand, since we're in bright sunny conditions is dry, therefore water isn't as efficient traveling through it. Once again, this isn't our call or fus us to decide and bicker about now.

I feel sorry for contributing to this additional fingerpointing, and I don't mind your posting at all, you're just as involved in this is I am. I disagree with the examiners calls in regards to everyone and myself. I originally was trying to just focus this issue on myself, but the cat is out of the bag and all hell has broken loose.

I really wish we would've just let the examiners handle it... I wouldn't mind a thread lock like my own thread received here. Sorry for refreshing and bumping this thread once again in my last post.