A new way of getting TP

[Coal]

SO! I've noticed that even the training posts have been dying down, along with the RP in general and I've been listening to the people. This is the first step in implementing a way to help turn it around!

My suggestion is this: Roleplay to gain TP.

So the concept itself is relatively simple, you Roleplay in order to gain TP, but it would be as easy as it sounds, because it has to be worth it.

Critera: (This is where I need some ideas to create a criteria list)
So the criteria for gaining this TP through RP is what makes it tough. Posts need to be quality posts, not trash posts, but posts that push the plot forward in a quality way. You need to RP with at least one other person, that means both need to be making quality posts, however you will be judged individually for your participation. Additionally, you cannot get a grade until threads are completed. Casual day to day threads will not be graded, so no meeting your bestie for a drink and talking about nonsense for a grade or going to a park to feed the birds. Gradable posts need to have Character Growth and Plot Development, as TP is a way of growing, so you need to be growing to receive it. Here's a list that I have created so far, but I need help fleshing it out in order to even stand a chance:

Quality
Quantity
Effort
Creativity
Plot
Growth
Interest
Flow

Now this is a supplement to Training, not a replacement for Training. You can still train solo to gain TP. What this will do is grant Floating TP that you can use toward Techniques. Now you might wonder what that means, so for example you and your team are doing a mission and you complete it, then a mod will read the whole post and grade each member according to the list for the criteria and will award [enter amount of TP here].

What do y'all think is a good number for TP?

So each type of thread will be graded differently:

Events
Contention Missions
Cooperative Missions
Fights
General Roleplay for Growth and Plot Development

Events will get the most TP awarded, as they are the hardest to complete. Then the Contention (Competative Missions) and so on. As you can see, I added combat as well, because fighting should have an award if it is done well, because it could also add growth to a character or be used as a plot device.

Remember, this is not to replace training, but a supplement, however it should add MORE than training does where TP is concerned. Roleplaying with others is always more difficult than beating on NPCs alone. Special Events are not to be included by the way (like the Thanksgiving Token Event, Quests for special techs and such).

So just to reiterate, the things I need help with are:
Fleshing out the criteria list
What you think each type of RP should be worth (0 - ??)

[jintai]

I'm in agreement for some type of reward from events and the like as such.

Events - D:  10tp  C:  30tp B:  40tp  A: 70tp  S:100tp
Contention Missions :  40tp
Cooperative Missions: 40tp
Fights : Non DE: 30tp  DE: 50tp
General Roleplay for Growth and Plot Development: 10Tp per ten post

The numbers I feel would be a good supplementary addative that i'm using based off other sites I've seen and how they do such rewards. Something decent and reasonable but nothing to off the charts to where it is a complete replacement to training.

As such I believe certain modifiers should also be applicable such as if a individual were to complete a S rank event by themselves and went above and beyond. This would be decided by the GM   among 3 categories. leaving the total possible cap for a S rank event being 130. Which can translate into a few techniques considering the changes to tp.

Quality-10tp

Quantity-10tp

Creativity-10tp

[Coal]

Unfortunately, there can be no Solo-ing. That's what the training TP is for. Even in Events, which is why Special Events like Cursed Seal and such won't be eligible. For those numbers, that's far too static and based on quantity mostly, I want to promote quality, that way people can't just bang out bullshit posts for points.

Additionally, the grading should be more of a volatile thing, so from 0 - [insert a max amount here]. I do like where you were going with it though.

Maybe a more reduced amount for anyone doing an Event solo, but only if they are abandoned, rather than choosing to go in solo.

Although RP should definitely be more lucrative than Training. So maybe for a growth post it can max at 20 TP should it meet criteria being graded for. So not just a flat rate and then additives, because people will just kinda push their way through with Quantity instead of quality, as if it's a crafting post or a search thread.

These are from 0 to whatever I think the max should be after meeting whatever the criteria should be when grading it as a whole.

20 - Growth and Plot thread completion
20 - Fight Completion
20 - Coop Mission + 10 each rank over D completed
30 - Contention Mission + 10 each rank over D completed
40 - Events + 10 each rank over D completed.

I figured I should explain why I don't think there should be more for DE. It might even be less or none for fights period. A lot of people use fights as a way of getting a free scrap. The half-ass it or give up half way or whatever. As much as I love fighting, a lot of them are very staged these days, which is fine if it's for growth and/or plot development in some way. But if it's just to fight, then there's no way.

[jintai]

I think that's why should be up to the grader's discretion not automatic earning. It would have to be reviewed unless you want a clear cut earn and reward system.

[Sabo]

Will it be up to the staff member to decide how much TP to be awarded?

A lot of work to be reading everyone’s post in a thread just to award them TP and not like you could give a fuck about what they’re doing. This system might be a bit harsh on staff like me.

Not like I’m lazy or anything, but it’s a big change from reading a couple training posts which usually involves fighting which tends to be interesting to reading PAGES of two guys going through their own personal character development. Don’t know about the rest of y’all but grades will come considerably slower from my point of view, no more “at work, quick read and grade” someone will send you a PM to read a whole 5 page mission with him and a couple of his mates and award them TP in a proper and not lazy manner....tough.

[Coal]

That's why one of the criteria was Interest. It has to be interesting as well, because someone has to read it. Also yes, it would ultimately be up to the staff to decide on the TP. A second opinion should be allowed, now that I think about it, that way the two staff members can come to terms on the TP that should be earned. What I find interesting might not be what you find interesting and vice versa.

[Tetsu]

I can see Sabo’s point here. You’ll definitely need some motivated staff to pull of proper grading, I’ll say that XD

[Coal]

I’ll grade it all if I have to. It’s no problem. If staff is too good to read people’s stuff, how are they staff? You always have to read people’s stuff…

[ᖫᖭØMNÏᖫᖭ]

Hi everyone, its Kahimi.

Okay so...as a fellow staff member advocating for this system. I REALLY want to help organize a way to implement it and all, but should go without saying that already we have systems in place that we could borrow from or expand on to make this work very seamlessly.

So don't reinvent the wheel you nerds lol <3

There are currently only two ways on NFRP to earn TP as depicted in the Player's Handbook

Quote from the Training Points Overview section of, "The Player's Handbook":

SPOILER: Click to show

Training Points (TP) or Experience Points is the measure between Class Levels. There are 2 ways of earning TP; you either train Techniques to gain TP, or you Complete events created by Game Masters which are accepted by Staff Members.

---

So as it stands:
- GMs & Players currently already gain TP from completing events. However, how they go about that is NOT currently listed in the Player Handbook. So using this fact, we can use that as a way to expand it towards General Roleplay, Fights, and Missions alike. Just like Coal and the rest of you are discussing.

First I want to note some things about TP and Training by itself:
- Training threads are typically single-person threads, that allow more than one person to participate regardless if they are training together, separately, or not at all in character.

*(Because of this we need to make sure we make it clear two or more people in a training thread together CANNOT double dip and gain Roleplay Growth TP, as that will convolute the point of making separate methods.)

- The relation between training posts made and their TP equivalent.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
50 Posts = 500TP/C Class
150 Posts = 1,500TP/B Class
300 Posts = 3,000TP/A Class
550 Posts = 5,500TP/S Class
*Cut all of those posts by half to gain the equivalent of TP gained ONLY from x2 Training Events.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

- The highest a character can be trained before their TP count exceeds any other barrier is 8,000TP. (800 Posts or 400 under x2 Training Only)

*(This is the highest amount someone can transfer from one account to another which is why I marked it as the cap. Especially since going past 5,500TP isn't necessary.)

Why am I mentioning this?
- Because we can use this information to help build the TP earning system that can allow Roleplay Growth TP to flow alongside Training TP.

- This way they both work in tandem, even though Roleplay Tp could potentially grant more TP than standard training in comparison. As it should, since roleplay will be the meat of everything we do here. Duh...

- However lets not get carried away with the numbers. It STILL needs to be clear and precise so it can fill in the gaps of TP Progression that isn't earned from Training alone in a neat and easily learnable way.

How to Implement This? Keep these two things in mind:
Training Threads = Linear Progression
Roleplay Threads = Exponential Progression

[Sabo]

Grade it all by yourself? Come on Coal that’s absurd. What happens when you go inactive for months which I know you will? I’m not unwilling to read things, but long term this won’t be easy for staff members. Reading pages of interactions and having to grade it according to the 8 factors you listed and possibly more will just lead to really slow and tired grades.

Look, I’m not against this idea but I don’t think you considered how much this changes staff duties, I didn’t even realize that on our discord chat about it. Also having 2 staff members to continuously come up with grades is not going to happen....look at the staff members we have...do you really think that’s going to work on a long term basis?

We can still make this work if we just think of an easier way of grading it.

Some time into this I’ll get far busier than I am now and resign because the work load was too much, I’m sure.

“Hey Sabo can you read this and award me and my pals TP” Much harder than grading a couple B ranks.

[Coal]

That's what this thread is about. Ideas to help streamline this to make it better. Give me some ideas and solutions and such. I just don't want it to be a GIMME type of thing like Training threads already are.

[Master Game]

Ok then let’s streamline it. I can definitely see Sabo’s point the grading process needs to be easier because as it is now it will put a lot of strain on staff.

Coal you mentioned a list of criteria in the beginning but I think half of it is either too abstract or too dependant on the grader’s own possibly biased interpretations.

I’m thinking there should only 4 criteria a thread should be graded on. It’s one thing to read a full thread, it’s another to analyse it and judge it by 8 different criteria. Staff will burnout faster than anything and they’ll be a bottleneck of ungraded threads and swarms of people complaining about it. So here’s what I think the criteria should be:

Quantity
Quality
Creativity
Personal Growth

Since it’s already established that threads should be assessed as a whole and graded only after completion, let’s talk first about quantity. I’m thinking 2 full pages of posts between two more or players is enough to warrant max TP, especially if these posts aren’t training but to further plot and character development. The average paragraph count per post should be 2 to avoid people spamming tiny singular paragraphs to reach 2 pages quickly.

Now quality. This is a tough nut to crack. People have different styles of writing and use different levels of vocabulary. I think a good common ground to judge quality by is simple grammar and punctuation, because no matter your style of writing good grammar and punctuation is vital for people to be able to understand your posts. The occasionally spelling mistake or missed comma shouldn’t penalise anyone as we’re only human, however if there’s a pattern of constant spelling mistakes and bad grammar that actively makes it hard to read, then yeah some points should be taken off in this department.

Now creativity. This is an even harder nut to crack as what constitutes itself as creativity differs depending on the context. A good general rule to use is, has it been done before? Are the players involved mimicking the same roleplay that they have previously done or someone else has recently done in lazy effort to grind tp? Is it so generically lacklustre that you nearly fell asleep reading it? Then it should do badly in this criteria.

Finally personal growth. If the characters involved developed new ideas, came to new realisations about themselves or even developed physically then that should be considered personal growth. If the characters involved remained mostly the same with little to no tangible character development(which should be easy enough to tell by reading) that should really hurt them in this area.

So yeah that’s my opinion on the grading criteria. However I disagree with the TP numbers.

20 TP for a whole plot thread completion is a joke when all of the criteria I’ve listed above has been met to good standard. I know this isn’t meant to replace training and most people will train alongside the this, but I still just think max TP is just too low. If we’re having this system it’s gotta be lucrative enough to satisfy the people that don’t want to train whatsoever but still want to grow their characters. Here’s what I think the max numbers should be:

Plot and Growth- 40
Fight- 40
Coop mission- 20 + 10 per mission rank
Contention Mission- 30 + 10 per mission rank
Events- 40 + 10 per event rank

Finally there should be a rule for Staff members grading these threads. The rule should be that they can only give grades in increments of 5. No one wants a 37/40 TP grade or shall I say no one wants 2 floating TP they can’t use. If you got 37/40 in a normal training thread, just make one more post to get your full grade but for this kind of TP award the thread has already been completed and there’s nothing you can do. Only makes sense to have this rule.

[Claws of the Tundra]

Master Game took the words right out of my mouth. I was going to make another post to explain my ideas on how the TP could best be distributed, and how staff could go about it.

- In my honest opinion I feel like we should extend this to cover threads that are done solo. The main reason why I say this is because this could benefit new players and veteran players alike. And lets be honest here. Good writing is good writing. A character objectively doesn't need another player's input just to grow.

BUT

Since we ARE using it to encourage Roleplay among players more. All we simply need to do is up the TP payout for doing it more players.

All I was gonna say is, if we do all Solo RP threads, and missions to be graded as well then we can just cut the initial TP gain by half. Leaving any threads that were done with more than one person to double the pay as if it were a x2 bonus event.

---

"B-B-B-BuT kAhImI!! sOlO RP iS wHaT Training is for!!" -Said the annoying orange

Well think of it this way:

- Two players want to gain tp, but they rather do it by themselves or have nobody they trust to do it with.

- Player 1 goes the Training Route.

- Player 2 goes the Roleplay Route.

Player 1 makes about 10 training posts, for an S Rank Technique in the span of about three days.

Player 2 finishes an extensive and well written roleplay thread on their own with a clear plot and passable character progression on Day 1.

On Day 2, they finish 2 C Rank Missions

On Day 3, they finish an A rank mission before deciding to take a break on roleplaying by themselves.

Player 1 gains: 100TP for Ten Posts. A linear progression of TP in a quick and easy manner only depending on worth ethic and efficiency.

Player 2 gets: Since they roleplayed solo all the initial payouts are reduced by half.

Roleplay Thread: +20TP
Missions: 40 for the 2 C Ranks, 40 for the A Ranks.

Maths: 20 - 1/2= 10 + 10 each rank above D
C Rank: 10 + 10= 20 x2 = 40
A Rank: 10 + 10 + 10 + 10= 40

Total TP Earned from RP?: 100 TP

---

Right off the bat, ya'll should notice that both players earned the same amount of TP on their solo runs. Who did it faster and easier? Well if you refer back the post I made on my: ᖫᖭØMNÏᖫᖭ account I mentioned how many posts it takes to reach each Class and beyond.

Well by looking at the example above Player 1 made the 100TP the easiest be far, because it only took ten posts (just like it normally would).

While Player 2 is going to be making probably x3 to x4 as many posts as them just to reach the same TP Gain by themselves. So gaining Solo RP isn't all that efficient then.

BUT lets say we added a Player 3 whom RP'd in all the threads player 2 did?

Now we double the payout.

Roleplay: 40
Missions: C Ranks: 60, A Ranks: 50
Total TP Gained: 150TP.

See the difference?

I like it being this way beause in my mind a system like this should be able to cover all forms of roleplay regardless if its coop or not:

- Solo RP, Standard Roleplay, Missions (doing it with more than one offers x2 the TP Pay), Contentious Missions, Event/Epics

- Events should be handled like Master Game put it. However, I believe all Epics should potentially either give a 50TP Tome. Or a 100TP Tome
*(The benefits of giving TP Tomes alongside whatever reward the character gains from completing their epic is that for things like Rasengan for instance. The player in theory could jumpstart the training on that jutsu using the TP Tome if they wanted to.)


Thus if we use this system, Training still remains hands down the fastest and most efficient way to gain TP. HOWEVER, Roleplaying by yourself and with partners will reward you significantly well to help keep the stress to a minimum and allow for constant growth among players at ALL TIMES.

As for the strain on staff members? It all depends on how many posts we want out of someone. I was gonna suggest at least 10 posts in a thread have to count fro RP Growth, to be eligible for a grade regardless of how many posts are in the thread in total.

[Coal]

Okay, I'm a fan of this. This looks pretty solid, but if anyone has more to add to it, please do so. Or pick it apart if you like. Right now it looks relatively solid to me and I'll start putting it all together so that I can present it to Heero for a look. Fantastic Community effort everyone, I really enjoy when y'all participate in these ideas!

[Sabo]

Think I’ve poked enough holes, but does anyone else feel like the some of the TP numbers are still a bit low. I mean 60tp for an S rank event where your life is on the line and would probably take months before completion. I don’t know if the system wasn’t meant to be so rewarding, but people train 60tp in a couple days...isn’t like the time and effort meant to be equivalent to the numbers? I was thinking like 200tp for an S rank Event.

[Claws of the Tundra]

No, I agree with you Sabo. However, I only feel this way for events. This is exactly why I mentioned that A-S Ranked Events and Epics should reward at least 100 TP Tomes. And perhaps B Ranked could reward 75 TP Tomes?

- In general, this system rewards in an exponential manner not in a linear manner like Training does.

So the numbers in Master Game's post were pretty fair considering how much everything can stack up very quickly. However, if they were tweaked in a final version perhaps bump up the base TP gain by 10 before adding the rank bonuses?

- Although, I can only imagine if accepted; Usiel will either run a soft test of the system by keeping small numbers first. Then increase the payout when he feels it's showing good results.

[Master Game]

By my numbers an S-rank event should be 90 TP not 60. I agree with increasing the base numbers by 10 though, however a static 200 TP even for an S-rank event is probably pushing it. If you can get it signed off I’m all for it but I just doubt Usiel will give that much leeway. Also yeah people can train 90 TP in a couple days but this system isn’t meant to replace training, it’s meant to complement it. People will still be able to train normally alongside making plot threads and going on events that will both grant TP.

[Coal]

Exactly Master Game. This is merely a complementary, not a replacement, so that much is not gonna fly at all. Additionally, Events offer a plethora of rewards that missions just don't offer at all. Untold goodies AND untold EXP is just too much.

[hoshisame]

From the perspective of someone who doesn't like writing training posts as much, I think player 2 mentioned by Omni had it way easier. He may have made more posts but you have a lot more opportunities to write about something. Writing 30 paragraphs about the same singular topic is rather challenging as eventually you get stuck in the loop of just repeating it a hundred times. Where as for a mission, you get the travelling, the twists, the plot, the surprises you have to deal with during a mission. Which makes the writing a lot easier for me at least. Now for some of the progressive skills (let's say A through S) you aren't talking about 30, you are talking about 72 paragraphs of the same stuff over and over again. So when you get to the S rank training, how much can you truly write that is different or unique from the rest?

Though that could just be my short coming is largely the reason why I keep going inactive myself.

[~Emi~]

Wall of text, so haven't read it all.

But make it simple! Don't make it down to gm's or staff to judge the quality or quantity, as that is so vague that it differs extremely between who grades.

Rp training should never be remotely close to normal training, as that would remove the need to even have training posts.

We currently have the following rewards for rp related things :

SPOILER: Click to show

Campaigns: Campaigns come in 2 levels, “A” Rank, or “S” Rank. “A” Rank Campaigns give each member participating (including the GM) 20 TP. “S” Rank Campaigns give each member participating (Including the GM) 25 TP. This TP is given at the end of a completed Campaign.

Chūnin Exams: Chūnin Exams net players and Chūnin Examiners a flat 100 TP, or 10 TP per person involved including Chūnin Examiners. To earn the TP all players and Chūnin Examiners must finish the Chūnin Exams with a proper finish.

Contentious Missions: Contentious Missions count as “B” Rank missions. Each player involved in an Contentious Mission gains 10 TP (including the GM). Contentious Missions must be completed to gain the TP.

Epics: Epics have no rank missions. Their main purpose is to give a player the access to learn a Technique. However, due to the severity of an Epic TP awards is given to each player participating. Each player (including the GM) receives 20 TP once the Epic is complete.

So the new system is mostly to make long threads and normal rp threads feel like progression in their character.

How do we make it easy and void of personal judgement ? 1 TP each 250 word. Easy to grade and usually results in 1-2 TP each on normal posts. That could also be applied to the above events and things, but they do not necessarily need any increase in their base TP as it shall never be close to training posts in value.

Why shouldn't we care about quality ? Because we don't want staff to be too kind or too harsh resulting in wrong grades. Make it easy! and if people do not keep up their quality, others will unlikely want to rp with them anyway.

Also remember that we do not have any tier above S rank, so by pushing the average players TP count to higher amounts, we really need something else but more techniques to aim for. So again I'd suggest that we add in higher ranks SS and SSS or w/e, or possibly a rebirth system for the players to restart their characters with a stat bonus.
Because I doubt it will be fun when almost everyone are top tier and all the events are fighting godlike creatures.